April 24, 2024 • 31 mins
Minnie questions Courteney Cox, star of Friends, Scream, Shining Vale, and more. Courteney shares why her temporary breakup with partner made their relationship stronger, why she’s more interested in where we come from than where we’re going, and tells the story of a steak on her Instagram.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Were you out and about at the weekend at all?
Or did you just stay home?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I never un out and about I go out. I
means I don't like going.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Out, and then when I do, it's usually to one
restaurant and that's it.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hello, I'm Mini driver. I've always loved Preust's questionnaire. It
was originally in nineteenth century parlor game where players would
ask each other thirty five questions aimed at revealing the
other player's true nature. In asking different people the same
set of questions, you can make observations about which truths
appear to be universal. And it made me wonder, what
(00:41):
if these questions were just the jumping off point, what
greater depths would be revealed if I asked these questions
as conversation starters. So I adapted Prus's questionnaire and I
wrote my own seven questions that I personally think are
pertinent to a person's story.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
They are when and where were you happiest? What is
the quality you like least about yourself? What relationship, real
or fictionalized, defines.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Love for you?
Speaker 4 (01:05):
What question would you most like answered? What person, place,
or experience has shaped you the most? What would be
your last meal? And can you tell me something in
your life that's grown out of a personal disaster. And
I've gathered a group of really remarkable people, ones that
I am honored and humbled to have had the chance
(01:25):
to engage with. You may not hear their answers to
all seven of these questions. We've whittled it down to
which questions felt closest to their experience, or the most surprising,
or created the most fertile ground to connect.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
My guest today is the actor Courtney Cox. Courtney has
been such a huge part of all of our cultural
consciousness since nineteen ninety four when she was cast in Friends,
perhaps the most successful sitcom of all time. It's really
interesting to speak with a person who everybody has this
deep feeling of already knowing because of the beloved character
they played. Out of space for who you are as
(02:01):
a person beyond the characters you play as an actor
is a challenge, particularly when your fame is stratisferic. Courtney
is a curious, deep feeling human who is unafraid to
explore the meaning and mysteries of life. It was great
to have such a candid conversation with her here on
the shed. What quality do you like least about yourself.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Oh wow, the thing I like least about myself being
any feelings of jealousy, whether you can feel replaced or
whether it's I think just chelousy, is such a horrible
emotion to have, and I have that sometimes I get
jealous or afraid. Whether it's because I'm getting older and
(02:54):
I'm not can't stay in the game, or it could
be about anything. But anytime I feel jealous, I can't
stand it. I will talk to my therapist and go,
I just hate this feeling.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
It's so interesting because when we think about jealousy. When
I'm thinking about it, it's easy to do with a lover.
That's how I perceive it. But it's really interesting the
idea of if you follow it all the way through
and it's like no, it can come in many forms.
That feeling of being replaced that is such a pertinent
one that goes to the fundament of who I am
(03:29):
or of who you are. The idea that there is
someone who could could take our place, when categorically there isn't.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
I know, when you step back, of course, you're not replaceable,
but it's such a it's a feeling that can come
up for me whether it's through friendships or like you said, relationships,
or in work.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I'm fascinated by that because I know that there must
be these aspects of you. It's like you're glad that
you're grown up because you're Koko's mama and you get
to be that. But there's also that profound memory, specifically
as an actor of when we were very young and
like at this sort of the zenith and that exalted feeling.
I feel that it's like, how does one negotiate and
(04:12):
manage that feeling of being older and that being these
young people who are who we were.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
As it were.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
But no, yeah, it's not easy, No, not at all.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
I remember when Olivia Newton John I read this a
long time ago, and I couldn't find it when she
passed away, and I wanted to because I remember it
being so important to me. But she had said this
comment that when she was in Greece and she was
wearing those black tight pants and smoking that cigarette and
doing that dance.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
She felt terrible about herself.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
She didn't like the way she looked, she felt fat,
she wasn't comfortable. This is what I read, and I
could have been you know, I'm making some of it
up because I just remember the feeling of going, WHOA,
how could you not think you're perfect back then?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
And she didn't.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
And then we look back in life and go, wait
a minute, we should so pleased with certain aspects of
our life.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Anyway, that's not part of my part of my jealousy.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Answer, no, but I think that's part. It's the irony
of the wonder of getting older. Is I find now
that my presence of mind, or presence of self, or
presence of everything around me is so acute, and it's
almost like I was fast asleep when I was there
in those moments of whether it's a physical peak of
(05:32):
strength and agility or how it was that I wanted
my body to look or I it was like I
was fast asleep. And I can't believe the disparity of
this wisdom that comes. It's such a cliche with the
wisdom that comes as we get older, which is not
visited upon us, or if we're very lucky, it is
when we're younger. And that it is that I wish
(05:55):
I could take this and go back and tell that
person be present and be aware and be in love
with the way that you are right now, because it's
full of so much good stuff. It's wild.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Yes, I think that we always whether it's oh, when
you have a child, you know you're going to really
miss these how other days, you know, just stay in
the moment, enjoyed them being a little baby.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
And I was just like, oh, when is this phasing
me over? This is brutal.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
But I guess when you don't get the chance to
have more kids or now they're growing up, it's just like,
oh God, I wish I'd held on to that a
little longer.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
But I just think it's kind of the way of life,
isn't it.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yeah, I think it really is. I did a birthday
video on Instagram and I was remembering this thing Carrie
Fisher said when I was twenty five and I was
at this birthday party that I didn't know a single
person there would I'd literally just arrived in town. I
was shooting a movie, and they'd thrown this Hollywood party
for me as I turned twenty five, and I was
kind of sitting by the fire and she came and
sat down and she was like, why are you looking
(06:58):
so miserable? And I was like, I don't know, twenty five,
it feels like a milestone and I'm not with anyone
I really know. And she was like, let me tell you,
this is the youngest you're ever going to be. Again.
I know it's the oldest you've ever been. And I
think about that all the time. I think about it
on my birthday. I also think about it when I
(07:18):
get because I get so exactly is I know you
must about your child because we both have one kid.
I'm like, God, I wish I'd paid more attention, or
I wish I hadn't wished that phase was over. Like
I go, okay, well, Henry's fourteen. God, I wish he
was little again. And we were having that conversation. I
let that trigger me into going, well, I'm going to
(07:39):
have that conversation with him now because I know when
I'm older, him being fourteen is still going to be
like a baby, and those conversations are I mean, obviously
it's very different to when they were little. I was
just thinking, I remember being a thing when you had Coco.
I don't know. She must have been like eight or nine,
and I had a leather jacket, aren't We said hi,
(08:01):
and you went to leave, and then she came back
and she went I like your leather jacket. That was
a good choice. It was so and then she gave
me a thumbs up, and I was just like the
kids go in places. She's like a firecracker. I mean,
I just remember her when she was little, like I
(08:21):
don't know her as a young woman now, but like,
you got to be a firecracker in this world. You
have to be there. You have to be strong and
wily and ready for anything. And I think, particularly being
a woman and growing up in this world, I think
it's I think it's a good thing. I really do.
It was.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I think that time of her life she was so
I mean, she is really funny, but there was no
insecurity about her.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Do you ever find that when you're looking at your
daughter in the way that I look at my style
and go, my god. They are just not imbued with
the same insecurity that I have, Like I categorically know
I did not pause on my pathological insecurity about well
that whatever that is to them. Do you ever feel
(09:08):
that with Coco or does it make you feel proud
or happy?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Not at all.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
I feel like I look at somebody and I've passed
all of that stuff onto anything. I mean, it's I
think having a girl is probably different. But I wish
so bad that I could have realized in the moment
a way to protect Coco from things that I didn't
because of my own issues, whether it was codependency or
(09:34):
seeing her in relationships with people that I knew this
was not good. But I didn't want to step in
even though I knew something wasn't right, because she would
she would get so.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Mad at me.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
She wanted me to, you know, let me deal with it. Mom,
you don't understand.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
And I did understand, and I should have trusted myself
and I should have stepped in so with certain things
about myself, she saw them. I'm not saying I made
her who she is, but you do see things in
other people, and whether it's just always you know, taking
care of people and being the nicest person. And I
mean that's one of the things. With age, I've learned
to say no, I've learned to have boundaries. But earlier on,
(10:12):
when she was a kid, or not even that many
years ago, I wish i'd been a firmer parent.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Hmmm, wow, I mean, yeah, God, that's so interesting. I
feel like I wrote down a list of things that
I didn't want to do that my parents did with me.
I've already tried. I mean, you don't. You can't do
it all the time. I don't know what Henry's going
to be in therapy over to do with me, but
I'm sure he'll tell me.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
But you know what, he might be the kid that
has the coolest mom and he will look for his
partner to be whatever it is that reminds him. And
it's going to be hard to live up to. But
I have a feeling you're an incredible, kind, loving patient mom.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Well that's really nice for you to say, but I'm
definitely not that all of the time.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Thank god cocos and to really high end clothes or
designer anything. She doesn't care about the labels, And thank
god that she shops for her clothes on Amazon, because
she could be this other kid I want to have
Guji and you'd have to spend your whole life saying no.
But she'll say, Mom, I have bought like five pairs
(11:20):
of Mary Jane's on Amazon and.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
They just keep breaking.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
I would it be okay if I got just one
really nice pair. I'm like, oh shit, yeah, and she'll
say yeah. From Steve Madden and I'm like, sure, Coco,
go ahead, I'm so lucky.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
What question would you most like answered?
Speaker 3 (11:56):
I would like to know the answer to where we
come from? Hmmm, because if I knew where he came from,
I know where were going.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Do you know I think that as well? Henry said
the other day, He's like, why do you think that
where you were before is where you're going to go
after you die? And I was like, I don't know,
I just did.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Well, it's also at least it's a possibility.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I mean, yeah, it's the I think it's a solid
theory based on absolutely nothing. But yes, I'm completely with you.
So you're talking about a consciousness, a consciousness that would
then enter the bundle of cells that are created by
human beings. Like, do you believe that there is somewhere
a before consciousness or a before place that consciousness swells around?
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
You know, I've watched people close to me die and
I saw my dad when he was within moments of dying,
and I saw him looking up and smiling, and then
he would frown, and then he'd be confused and then
repeat it all over again.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
And I was like, Dad, are you talking to angels?
And he said yes, baby, And then I said, are
you safe? His nurse was next to me. Did you
hear him? He said yes, I go I didn't hear that.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
And then I was like, oh, this is the part
where I'm supposed to have faith that it's going to
be okay.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
You don't get to have the answers. And I was like,
I didn't hear him.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
I tried to ask again, I got nothing. But I
don't know what happens out there. I don't know where
we go, why we do it, what are we coming back?
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Are we not? I don't know.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
But if I knew where we came from, it feels
a little it would give me some a little safety
or some insight.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Do you think it would be easy to get the
answer to where we came from as opposed to where
we're going.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Well, I don't want to know where we're going, really,
because what am I to do every day? Worry that
what if it's not a place I want to go?
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Aha?
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Or what if this is it?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Then I got to know every day that, oh my god, Well,
I guess if you think this is it, you can
live in the moment, really enjoy every single thing. But
I don't want to have fear about it. But if
I knew where we came from, then there's possibility still.
What it would be interesting if you didn't know, like, oh, yeah,
you were an insect last time something? It would be
(14:23):
I seemed it because I'm really happy in this life.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I just want to know was it worse before?
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Was it better?
Speaker 3 (14:29):
I think I know there's certain lessons that we will
continue to have to learn until we get them.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Do you mean that singularly or do you mean that
as people?
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Well, actually as people, but I met that singularly when
I said it.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
You know what's really interesting what you do? Which I'm
saying this because I got Mustard for this. When I
was writing my book. You do this thing where you
put things in the second person, and I do it too,
So in talking about a relationship, you know, when you're
angry with someone, or when you love someone, or when
they do such and such, and I was writing like that,
(15:03):
and my editor went, do you realize that whenever you're
writing something really emotional you go into the second person?
You were right? You know, when you leave school and
there's nobody there to pick you up, and you fall
over and you have to pick yourself up and walk
home and there's no one to open the door. And
I was like, I don't do that, got really defensive,
and then I went back and I looked, and any
time there was something, it was like to create a
(15:26):
space between me and this thing happening. It feels so
tender to me now when we as people. When you
do it and when I do it, or when I
hear someone else do it, it immediately makes me know. It
makes me want to hug them. It's so hard to
be a human and to be in our to be
(15:47):
in our stuff and to own it because there is
so much we don't know and so much we just
have to trust, and so much we have to embrace.
And then having children and watching them go through all
of that not knowing. I think that is such a
genuinely sweet, dear, tender part of you. Courtney really is
(16:09):
just in observing.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
But yeah, I'll be taking note of that and watching
myself do it.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
It's really funny.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Sidically in my mind when she told me that what relationship,
real or fictionalized defines love for you, I.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Mean, I have certain people that I know and love
that have relationships that I look up to but I
would say a relationship that has complete acceptance when you
love somebody through their emotional challenges and their frailty and
their weaknesses and their triggers and just their messiness, their
(16:52):
unsolved selves, and you love them through all of that,
or you accept all of that.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
That's to me, the definition of real love is acceptance. Acceptance.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Do you feel that's like when you feel about that?
Is that the way in which you were accepted or
the way in which you feel yourself accepting the other person. Well, I.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
To feel someone accept me for all of my foils
and my you know, whatever they are, that feels like true,
absolutely true love.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
I mean it's hard.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I don't accept everything about somebody.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
But when I meet people in the you know, they say, oh,
you know, I hated this before I met this person.
Then then it's like, you know what, I love that person,
and so I what are you going to do?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
When did you first feel that? Like did you have
that modeled for you as a kid or did you
come to it when you were in a relationship? Like
how did you come upon that realization?
Speaker 3 (17:56):
No, I didn't have that at all when I was
a kid, not at all. My mom she was a
beautiful woman that had no real drive. She was so
sweet and she was so non judgmental to everyone except
for herself and maybe your kids.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
But I used to say to my mom, did you
ever go long?
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Did anybody ever throw a football and say run and
then someone throws it and you caught.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
In the middle there? And She's like, no, she's a
southern sweet lady.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
That's why I actually got this tattoo that says go long,
because I wanted my mom to like go But my
mom didn't have a lot of drive. And my dad
would love sports and he loved he loved women. He
was very much a flirt. But no, they had nothing
in common. They didn't have any acceptance for each other.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
See your tattoo says go long. When you look at that,
what does that mean for you?
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Pay chances, enjoy, be silly, don't let fear stop you.
You know, if you're embarrassed to fail, it's okay, do
it anyway.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, it means so many different things.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, I love that. I think it's such a I
think that's I think that's such a fantastic thing to
be able to look down and look at and remind
yourself of I.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Mean, I'm in a relationship now where I feel like
we are growing to accept each other. It's taken a
long time. I think sometimes you have to grow into that.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
What is it that you think makes you stay like
to wait for the acceptance if that's the thing that
you've set your course for, if that's the thing you're
running towards, and there's a certain amount of faith in
that of going, Okay, well this is what I'm heading towards.
What is it that keeps you going I'm waiting for
this to show up, or I believe that this is
going to show up. What are some of the other
tenets that kind of keep you strong and well, you're
(19:43):
waiting for acceptance.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Well, when you first meet someone, you accept everything, and
then as time goes you don't accept anything or accept
Oh wait a minute, I don't really like that. And
then as I get further into a relationship and I
like the person, then I realized some of the things
that I couldn't accept in the middle part were things
(20:05):
that are probably needed to control. I remember wanting to
control certain things, whether it's I don't like you smoking cyretts,
I would make it personal syah. It's a really hard
to not do when you were addicted, but for some reason,
if you couldn't quit for somebody, then it was like,
how about that's their ISU, It's okay, I accept I
remember just feeling that.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I think that a lot of it has to do
with feeling.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
I guess again, like the other question important, So what
keeps you in there?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Just liking the person?
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I think. I mean, that's really interesting because perhaps it's
about the acceptance of self. That's how one accepts things
in another person, whatever it is, intolerance or impatience, all
of those things, because you really like a person. I
think liking someone is a huge bridge.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
I think that's really true.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
It's really about self acceptance because if you can accept
the part of you that doesn't have to be rigid,
you don't have to hold onto things. You can accept
or ask yourself questions.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Well, I don't know the things that make me in
the beginning, what is it? Chris Rock said, when you
first start dating me, you're not dating me, you're dating
my representative. Like that's that. I've always loved that you
accept everything in the beginning, and then all that shit
starts to bug you. But it's funny now, Like in
my relationship. The stuff that bug me now it makes
(21:22):
me laugh because I see it as part of him,
this person that has all these things that are amazing,
not just the highlights that I loved before and just
looked at that, but the really annoying stuff. It sort
of makes me chuckle because I feel like it's made
me a more tolerant person. And I know that's the
(21:42):
same with him, the stuff that he puts up with,
just as you said, the stuff that they put up
with with us. That's part of what love is, like,
love is accepting one's intolerance in power and carrying on anyway.
You know, it's so funny this idea of romantic love
that we are soul that this person and encapsulates all
of these things. It's not love is actually love is
(22:05):
actually tolerating that shit and loving them anyway.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
And understanding them more.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Because I don't know if it's age or whether it's duration,
but now I can really see, oh, this is what's happening.
I see where the wounds come from and myself and
in others. I see that in all my relationships. It's
so much easier to be tolerant and patient when you
know that any kind of act out or any kind
of trigger that comes up. It has such a route
(22:33):
that is more important than what's happening in the moment.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Yeah, So I can forgive anybody for any like any
friend anything. I don't hold any grudges because you know
that's coming from a deeper wound. Although I did have
a dream about Lisa Kudro last night, and she really
hurt my feelings and I wouldn't like think about her
why she might not she wouldn't do something with me.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
And at Liasa is one of the greatest people on
the planet and she would do anything for me, but
not last night.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
You didn't.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
So I got to call her and find out that.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
God, I wish I knew what dreams. Man, You've taken
the most reliable person and then you spun her into
your dream to be the person that lets you down.
It's like, okay, I found the most reliable person to
screw me over, Like, what is that in your life?
(23:36):
Can you tell me about something that has grown out
of the personal disaster.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
I won't use the second person.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
I will say when Johnny and I broke up, yeah,
five years ago.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
This is Johnny who you are still in I'm still
with your relationship with you're still together, but there was
a moment where you broke up.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Okay, yeah, after about two or three years moving together
for like a long time. Yeah, so three years in
we broke up and it was really intense. We broke
up in therapy. I didn't know it was coming, whether
I should have or not. It was just like we
went to this therapist to talk about our boundaries, what
we could and couldn't accept about each other.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
There's that acceptance, uh huh.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Instead he just broke up within the first minute, and
I was like, what we were engaged? And I was
so shocked. I was in so much pain. I also
don't like surprises, and he's an incredible human beings, so
he wasn't trying to surprise me. He was in that
much pain in the relationship. There was that much that
needed to be dealt with, that he had to protect
(24:42):
himself around his heart. So as opposed to like going
fucking I don't know if I'm allowed to cuss on
this thing, but.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
You can cuss up as to.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Him, okay, as opposed to going fuck him, you know,
getting in this mode of anger. I went in and
I I did the most work on myself by far.
I learned how to claim my voice, boundaries, what were
my motives in life?
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Like what was my part in this?
Speaker 3 (25:11):
And I'm so thankful for that breakup because a when
we got back together, it was a different relationship, but
also because it really taught me how I.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Operated in the world.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
What were the things from my childhood that I needed,
like whether it was to be adored by men or
things that I didn't know how to let go, to
be in a relationship, to not take things personally my boundaries.
I just went into myself and I had a great therapist.
I went to the same one. I kept seeing him,
the one that we met all the breakup day, and
it was brutal to go to his office after that
(25:43):
for a while, but then it was great and I'm
really thankful a nothing will ever hurt me that bad again.
And then the most of all, most importantly, I completely changed.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
H gosh, that's so interesting. I feel like all of us,
well most do anything we can to not feel pain.
I think people are so frightened of emotional pain, but
the idea of when it happens, there's so much strength
in realizing that it doesn't killy, and that what one
(26:18):
can foster in oneself because of that pain is so
much better and so much more amazing. There is such
incredible freedom in taking the hit and then going what
is my part in the pain of all of this
and coming out the other side, Like I imagine if
you come out of the other side of that with
Johnny or without Johnny, it would sort of have been
(26:40):
a completely different version of yourself.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
It takes a lot of bravery to end something that
has so much passion or and anything any kind of relationship.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
It's so much easier just to stay and ride things
out and make excuses, and you know, fear of.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Pain is just too much to handle.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
But once you are bold enough to make this and
go through the pain, you can't go around it, so
you just go through it, and then when you do,
everything's easier. I so I always trying to tell Coco, Coco,
this issue, this is a roadblock. You can't go around it.
It's going to catch you down the road. Go through it,
deal with it. And this is another thing I learned
(27:19):
during that time, and I'm still working on it every day.
Am I doing this out of fear or connection?
Speaker 1 (27:27):
And I have to ask.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Myself like some of them like, oh, I haven't heard
from that person. I wonder if they still like me,
or what if they care? And then I think, wait
a minute, do I actually care? If they care?
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Do I really want it? Am I connecting with them
or now just seeing if they care.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I'm writing things down that you're saying.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
It gives you a lot of clarity. What is your motive?
What are you doing things for? And I'm thankful that
Johnny was so bold and brave because it was life
changing for me and I'm sure for him.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
You do make the most delicious food. So what would
be your last meal?
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Is my stomach like endless.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
It's limitless. This is like your everything that you love.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Okay, I would start with a Giorgio salad, the one
on West Channel. Oh I loved dressing whatever the red wine,
vinegar or whatever it is. I cannot. I've tried, but
I cannot make it as good. It's got a rubula
and ondives and anyway, That's what i'd start with.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
And then I would have like a pasta course, which.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Would be maybe a pesto and maybe a tomato sauce
with some fresh mozzarella and then I'd have a twice
baked potato stuff with like sour cream and cheese and butter,
and I would I'd have a steak but cooked the
way the sky made it on my Instagram.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Recently, so good. It was better than I can do.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Wait, you didn't even eat it. You just looked at
it on Instagram, and that's you want your steak.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
No, no, no, I saw him on Instagram and then
you got him to I wrote to him to stop it.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Oh, Instagram was like a dating friend website.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Oh my god, Cotney, that's the most amazing thing. So
you saw a guy make a steak and then you
DMed him and he was like, sure, will come. And
then he came and actually recreated that steak in your
house and you ate it.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
This looked so good, So I asked, could he please
come over and teach me something? He used to work
for a Michelin Star restaurant, and I'm not really that
kind of food because I want more.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I like bulk.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yes, I like bulk too, I agree.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
And I don't need it to be so fancy. I
need I needed like how do I make this?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (29:38):
So yeah, he came over and he taught me how
to make that steak. We made that, and then he
came over again and made this Korean Southern fried chicken
with coleslaw over waffles.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
And it was incredible, but I will say it took
like seven hours. He made the pastry.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
I said, like, dude, why don't you just get some
Pillsbury dough crescent rolls. That was going to care once
you put it in the wall, Homemaker, just the shape there,
and he had like the layer of pastry and then
the big thing of butter, and then more pastries.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
And I'm like, oh my god, it was the longest
meal in the whole world.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
That's making puff pastry. It is gnarly making puff pastry
from scratch. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
It was like a poissant that you put into a.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
That you then put in a waffle line. Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
It was great.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
That's a croissant waffle.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
It's called a proffele.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Oh ohissant any which way, Yeah, now I want that.
And then he put fried chicken on top that.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Was twice fried, and then after it was so crunchy,
then he put it with this Korean kind of.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
It was salty, sweet, spicy.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Salt, fat, acid sugar. Oh my god, I'm so hungry now.
I just can't thank you enough. That's such a wonderful conversation.
I've written so many things down just to go and remember.
And waffles made out of puff postries. Mini Questions is
(31:07):
hosted and written by Me, Mini Driver, Executive produced by
Me and Aaron Kaufman, with production support from Jennifer Bassett,
Zoey Denkler, and Ali Perry. The theme music is also
by Me and additional music by Aaron Kaufman. Special banks
to Jim Nikolay Addison, O'Day, Henry Driver, Lisa Castella, A
(31:30):
Nick Oppenheim, A, Nick Mueller and Annette Wolfe, a w kPr,
Will Pearson, Nicki Etoor, Morgan Levoy and mangesh A Tigadore.
Were you out and about at the weekend at all?
Or did you just stay home?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I never un out and about I go out. I
means I don't like going.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Out, and then when I do, it's usually to one
restaurant and that's it.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hello, I'm Mini driver. I've always loved Preust's questionnaire. It
was originally in nineteenth century parlor game where players would
ask each other thirty five questions aimed at revealing the
other player's true nature. In asking different people the same
set of questions, you can make observations about which truths
appear to be universal. And it made me wonder, what
(00:41):
if these questions were just the jumping off point, what
greater depths would be revealed if I asked these questions
as conversation starters. So I adapted Prus's questionnaire and I
wrote my own seven questions that I personally think are
pertinent to a person's story.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
They are when and where were you happiest? What is
the quality you like least about yourself? What relationship, real
or fictionalized, defines.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Love for you?
Speaker 4 (01:05):
What question would you most like answered? What person, place,
or experience has shaped you the most? What would be
your last meal? And can you tell me something in
your life that's grown out of a personal disaster. And
I've gathered a group of really remarkable people, ones that
I am honored and humbled to have had the chance
(01:25):
to engage with. You may not hear their answers to
all seven of these questions. We've whittled it down to
which questions felt closest to their experience, or the most surprising,
or created the most fertile ground to connect.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
My guest today is the actor Courtney Cox. Courtney has
been such a huge part of all of our cultural
consciousness since nineteen ninety four when she was cast in Friends,
perhaps the most successful sitcom of all time. It's really
interesting to speak with a person who everybody has this
deep feeling of already knowing because of the beloved character
they played. Out of space for who you are as
(02:01):
a person beyond the characters you play as an actor
is a challenge, particularly when your fame is stratisferic. Courtney
is a curious, deep feeling human who is unafraid to
explore the meaning and mysteries of life. It was great
to have such a candid conversation with her here on
the shed. What quality do you like least about yourself.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Oh wow, the thing I like least about myself being
any feelings of jealousy, whether you can feel replaced or
whether it's I think just chelousy, is such a horrible
emotion to have, and I have that sometimes I get
jealous or afraid. Whether it's because I'm getting older and
(02:54):
I'm not can't stay in the game, or it could
be about anything. But anytime I feel jealous, I can't
stand it. I will talk to my therapist and go,
I just hate this feeling.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
It's so interesting because when we think about jealousy. When
I'm thinking about it, it's easy to do with a lover.
That's how I perceive it. But it's really interesting the
idea of if you follow it all the way through
and it's like no, it can come in many forms.
That feeling of being replaced that is such a pertinent
one that goes to the fundament of who I am
(03:29):
or of who you are. The idea that there is
someone who could could take our place, when categorically there isn't.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
I know, when you step back, of course, you're not replaceable,
but it's such a it's a feeling that can come
up for me whether it's through friendships or like you said, relationships,
or in work.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
I'm fascinated by that because I know that there must
be these aspects of you. It's like you're glad that
you're grown up because you're Koko's mama and you get
to be that. But there's also that profound memory, specifically
as an actor of when we were very young and
like at this sort of the zenith and that exalted feeling.
I feel that it's like, how does one negotiate and
(04:12):
manage that feeling of being older and that being these
young people who are who we were.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
As it were.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
But no, yeah, it's not easy, No, not at all.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
I remember when Olivia Newton John I read this a
long time ago, and I couldn't find it when she
passed away, and I wanted to because I remember it
being so important to me. But she had said this
comment that when she was in Greece and she was
wearing those black tight pants and smoking that cigarette and
doing that dance.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
She felt terrible about herself.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
She didn't like the way she looked, she felt fat,
she wasn't comfortable. This is what I read, and I
could have been you know, I'm making some of it
up because I just remember the feeling of going, WHOA,
how could you not think you're perfect back then?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
And she didn't.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
And then we look back in life and go, wait
a minute, we should so pleased with certain aspects of
our life.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Anyway, that's not part of my part of my jealousy.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Answer, no, but I think that's part. It's the irony
of the wonder of getting older. Is I find now
that my presence of mind, or presence of self, or
presence of everything around me is so acute, and it's
almost like I was fast asleep when I was there
in those moments of whether it's a physical peak of
(05:32):
strength and agility or how it was that I wanted
my body to look or I it was like I
was fast asleep. And I can't believe the disparity of
this wisdom that comes. It's such a cliche with the
wisdom that comes as we get older, which is not
visited upon us, or if we're very lucky, it is
when we're younger. And that it is that I wish
(05:55):
I could take this and go back and tell that
person be present and be aware and be in love
with the way that you are right now, because it's
full of so much good stuff. It's wild.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Yes, I think that we always whether it's oh, when
you have a child, you know you're going to really
miss these how other days, you know, just stay in
the moment, enjoyed them being a little baby.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
And I was just like, oh, when is this phasing
me over? This is brutal.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
But I guess when you don't get the chance to
have more kids or now they're growing up, it's just like,
oh God, I wish I'd held on to that a
little longer.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
But I just think it's kind of the way of life,
isn't it.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yeah, I think it really is. I did a birthday
video on Instagram and I was remembering this thing Carrie
Fisher said when I was twenty five and I was
at this birthday party that I didn't know a single
person there would I'd literally just arrived in town. I
was shooting a movie, and they'd thrown this Hollywood party
for me as I turned twenty five, and I was
kind of sitting by the fire and she came and
sat down and she was like, why are you looking
(06:58):
so miserable? And I was like, I don't know, twenty five,
it feels like a milestone and I'm not with anyone
I really know. And she was like, let me tell you,
this is the youngest you're ever going to be. Again.
I know it's the oldest you've ever been. And I
think about that all the time. I think about it
on my birthday. I also think about it when I
(07:18):
get because I get so exactly is I know you
must about your child because we both have one kid.
I'm like, God, I wish I'd paid more attention, or
I wish I hadn't wished that phase was over. Like
I go, okay, well, Henry's fourteen. God, I wish he
was little again. And we were having that conversation. I
let that trigger me into going, well, I'm going to
(07:39):
have that conversation with him now because I know when
I'm older, him being fourteen is still going to be
like a baby, and those conversations are I mean, obviously
it's very different to when they were little. I was
just thinking, I remember being a thing when you had Coco.
I don't know. She must have been like eight or nine,
and I had a leather jacket, aren't We said hi,
(08:01):
and you went to leave, and then she came back
and she went I like your leather jacket. That was
a good choice. It was so and then she gave
me a thumbs up, and I was just like the
kids go in places. She's like a firecracker. I mean,
I just remember her when she was little, like I
(08:21):
don't know her as a young woman now, but like,
you got to be a firecracker in this world. You
have to be there. You have to be strong and
wily and ready for anything. And I think, particularly being
a woman and growing up in this world, I think
it's I think it's a good thing. I really do.
It was.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I think that time of her life she was so
I mean, she is really funny, but there was no
insecurity about her.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Do you ever find that when you're looking at your
daughter in the way that I look at my style
and go, my god. They are just not imbued with
the same insecurity that I have, Like I categorically know
I did not pause on my pathological insecurity about well
that whatever that is to them. Do you ever feel
(09:08):
that with Coco or does it make you feel proud
or happy?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Not at all.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
I feel like I look at somebody and I've passed
all of that stuff onto anything. I mean, it's I
think having a girl is probably different. But I wish
so bad that I could have realized in the moment
a way to protect Coco from things that I didn't
because of my own issues, whether it was codependency or
(09:34):
seeing her in relationships with people that I knew this
was not good. But I didn't want to step in
even though I knew something wasn't right, because she would
she would get so.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Mad at me.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
She wanted me to, you know, let me deal with it. Mom,
you don't understand.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
And I did understand, and I should have trusted myself
and I should have stepped in so with certain things
about myself, she saw them. I'm not saying I made
her who she is, but you do see things in
other people, and whether it's just always you know, taking
care of people and being the nicest person. And I
mean that's one of the things. With age, I've learned
to say no, I've learned to have boundaries. But earlier on,
(10:12):
when she was a kid, or not even that many
years ago, I wish i'd been a firmer parent.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Hmmm, wow, I mean, yeah, God, that's so interesting. I
feel like I wrote down a list of things that
I didn't want to do that my parents did with me.
I've already tried. I mean, you don't. You can't do
it all the time. I don't know what Henry's going
to be in therapy over to do with me, but
I'm sure he'll tell me.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
But you know what, he might be the kid that
has the coolest mom and he will look for his
partner to be whatever it is that reminds him. And
it's going to be hard to live up to. But
I have a feeling you're an incredible, kind, loving patient mom.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Well that's really nice for you to say, but I'm
definitely not that all of the time.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Thank god cocos and to really high end clothes or
designer anything. She doesn't care about the labels, And thank
god that she shops for her clothes on Amazon, because
she could be this other kid I want to have
Guji and you'd have to spend your whole life saying no.
But she'll say, Mom, I have bought like five pairs
(11:20):
of Mary Jane's on Amazon and.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
They just keep breaking.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
I would it be okay if I got just one
really nice pair. I'm like, oh shit, yeah, and she'll
say yeah. From Steve Madden and I'm like, sure, Coco,
go ahead, I'm so lucky.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
What question would you most like answered?
Speaker 3 (11:56):
I would like to know the answer to where we
come from? Hmmm, because if I knew where he came from,
I know where were going.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Do you know I think that as well? Henry said
the other day, He's like, why do you think that
where you were before is where you're going to go
after you die? And I was like, I don't know,
I just did.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Well, it's also at least it's a possibility.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I mean, yeah, it's the I think it's a solid
theory based on absolutely nothing. But yes, I'm completely with you.
So you're talking about a consciousness, a consciousness that would
then enter the bundle of cells that are created by
human beings. Like, do you believe that there is somewhere
a before consciousness or a before place that consciousness swells around?
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
You know, I've watched people close to me die and
I saw my dad when he was within moments of dying,
and I saw him looking up and smiling, and then
he would frown, and then he'd be confused and then
repeat it all over again.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
And I was like, Dad, are you talking to angels?
And he said yes, baby, And then I said, are
you safe? His nurse was next to me. Did you
hear him? He said yes, I go I didn't hear that.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
And then I was like, oh, this is the part
where I'm supposed to have faith that it's going to
be okay.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
You don't get to have the answers. And I was like,
I didn't hear him.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
I tried to ask again, I got nothing. But I
don't know what happens out there. I don't know where
we go, why we do it, what are we coming back?
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Are we not? I don't know.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
But if I knew where we came from, it feels
a little it would give me some a little safety
or some insight.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Do you think it would be easy to get the
answer to where we came from as opposed to where
we're going.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Well, I don't want to know where we're going, really,
because what am I to do every day? Worry that
what if it's not a place I want to go?
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Aha?
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Or what if this is it?
Speaker 3 (14:01):
Then I got to know every day that, oh my god, Well,
I guess if you think this is it, you can
live in the moment, really enjoy every single thing. But
I don't want to have fear about it. But if
I knew where we came from, then there's possibility still.
What it would be interesting if you didn't know, like, oh, yeah,
you were an insect last time something? It would be
(14:23):
I seemed it because I'm really happy in this life.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I just want to know was it worse before?
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Was it better?
Speaker 3 (14:29):
I think I know there's certain lessons that we will
continue to have to learn until we get them.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Do you mean that singularly or do you mean that
as people?
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Well, actually as people, but I met that singularly when
I said it.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
You know what's really interesting what you do? Which I'm
saying this because I got Mustard for this. When I
was writing my book. You do this thing where you
put things in the second person, and I do it too,
So in talking about a relationship, you know, when you're
angry with someone, or when you love someone, or when
they do such and such, and I was writing like that,
(15:03):
and my editor went, do you realize that whenever you're
writing something really emotional you go into the second person?
You were right? You know, when you leave school and
there's nobody there to pick you up, and you fall
over and you have to pick yourself up and walk
home and there's no one to open the door. And
I was like, I don't do that, got really defensive,
and then I went back and I looked, and any
time there was something, it was like to create a
(15:26):
space between me and this thing happening. It feels so
tender to me now when we as people. When you
do it and when I do it, or when I
hear someone else do it, it immediately makes me know. It
makes me want to hug them. It's so hard to
be a human and to be in our to be
(15:47):
in our stuff and to own it because there is
so much we don't know and so much we just
have to trust, and so much we have to embrace.
And then having children and watching them go through all
of that not knowing. I think that is such a
genuinely sweet, dear, tender part of you. Courtney really is
(16:09):
just in observing.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
But yeah, I'll be taking note of that and watching
myself do it.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
It's really funny.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Sidically in my mind when she told me that what relationship,
real or fictionalized defines love for you, I.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Mean, I have certain people that I know and love
that have relationships that I look up to but I
would say a relationship that has complete acceptance when you
love somebody through their emotional challenges and their frailty and
their weaknesses and their triggers and just their messiness, their
(16:52):
unsolved selves, and you love them through all of that,
or you accept all of that.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
That's to me, the definition of real love is acceptance. Acceptance.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Do you feel that's like when you feel about that?
Is that the way in which you were accepted or
the way in which you feel yourself accepting the other person. Well, I.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
To feel someone accept me for all of my foils
and my you know, whatever they are, that feels like true,
absolutely true love.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
I mean it's hard.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I don't accept everything about somebody.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
But when I meet people in the you know, they say, oh,
you know, I hated this before I met this person.
Then then it's like, you know what, I love that person,
and so I what are you going to do?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
When did you first feel that? Like did you have
that modeled for you as a kid or did you
come to it when you were in a relationship? Like
how did you come upon that realization?
Speaker 3 (17:56):
No, I didn't have that at all when I was
a kid, not at all. My mom she was a
beautiful woman that had no real drive. She was so
sweet and she was so non judgmental to everyone except
for herself and maybe your kids.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
But I used to say to my mom, did you
ever go long?
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Did anybody ever throw a football and say run and
then someone throws it and you caught.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
In the middle there? And She's like, no, she's a
southern sweet lady.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
That's why I actually got this tattoo that says go long,
because I wanted my mom to like go But my
mom didn't have a lot of drive. And my dad
would love sports and he loved he loved women. He
was very much a flirt. But no, they had nothing
in common. They didn't have any acceptance for each other.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
See your tattoo says go long. When you look at that,
what does that mean for you?
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Pay chances, enjoy, be silly, don't let fear stop you.
You know, if you're embarrassed to fail, it's okay, do
it anyway.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, it means so many different things.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, I love that. I think it's such a I
think that's I think that's such a fantastic thing to
be able to look down and look at and remind
yourself of I.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Mean, I'm in a relationship now where I feel like
we are growing to accept each other. It's taken a
long time. I think sometimes you have to grow into that.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
What is it that you think makes you stay like
to wait for the acceptance if that's the thing that
you've set your course for, if that's the thing you're
running towards, and there's a certain amount of faith in
that of going, Okay, well this is what I'm heading towards.
What is it that keeps you going I'm waiting for
this to show up, or I believe that this is
going to show up. What are some of the other
tenets that kind of keep you strong and well, you're
(19:43):
waiting for acceptance.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Well, when you first meet someone, you accept everything, and
then as time goes you don't accept anything or accept
Oh wait a minute, I don't really like that. And
then as I get further into a relationship and I
like the person, then I realized some of the things
that I couldn't accept in the middle part were things
(20:05):
that are probably needed to control. I remember wanting to
control certain things, whether it's I don't like you smoking cyretts,
I would make it personal syah. It's a really hard
to not do when you were addicted, but for some reason,
if you couldn't quit for somebody, then it was like,
how about that's their ISU, It's okay, I accept I
remember just feeling that.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I think that a lot of it has to do
with feeling.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
I guess again, like the other question important, So what
keeps you in there?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Just liking the person?
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I think. I mean, that's really interesting because perhaps it's
about the acceptance of self. That's how one accepts things
in another person, whatever it is, intolerance or impatience, all
of those things, because you really like a person. I
think liking someone is a huge bridge.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
I think that's really true.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
It's really about self acceptance because if you can accept
the part of you that doesn't have to be rigid,
you don't have to hold onto things. You can accept
or ask yourself questions.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Well, I don't know the things that make me in
the beginning, what is it? Chris Rock said, when you
first start dating me, you're not dating me, you're dating
my representative. Like that's that. I've always loved that you
accept everything in the beginning, and then all that shit
starts to bug you. But it's funny now, Like in
my relationship. The stuff that bug me now it makes
(21:22):
me laugh because I see it as part of him,
this person that has all these things that are amazing,
not just the highlights that I loved before and just
looked at that, but the really annoying stuff. It sort
of makes me chuckle because I feel like it's made
me a more tolerant person. And I know that's the
(21:42):
same with him, the stuff that he puts up with,
just as you said, the stuff that they put up
with with us. That's part of what love is, like,
love is accepting one's intolerance in power and carrying on anyway.
You know, it's so funny this idea of romantic love
that we are soul that this person and encapsulates all
of these things. It's not love is actually love is
(22:05):
actually tolerating that shit and loving them anyway.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
And understanding them more.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Because I don't know if it's age or whether it's duration,
but now I can really see, oh, this is what's happening.
I see where the wounds come from and myself and
in others. I see that in all my relationships. It's
so much easier to be tolerant and patient when you
know that any kind of act out or any kind
of trigger that comes up. It has such a route
(22:33):
that is more important than what's happening in the moment.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Yeah, So I can forgive anybody for any like any
friend anything. I don't hold any grudges because you know
that's coming from a deeper wound. Although I did have
a dream about Lisa Kudro last night, and she really
hurt my feelings and I wouldn't like think about her
why she might not she wouldn't do something with me.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
And at Liasa is one of the greatest people on
the planet and she would do anything for me, but
not last night.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
You didn't.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
So I got to call her and find out that.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
God, I wish I knew what dreams. Man, You've taken
the most reliable person and then you spun her into
your dream to be the person that lets you down.
It's like, okay, I found the most reliable person to
screw me over, Like, what is that in your life?
(23:36):
Can you tell me about something that has grown out
of the personal disaster.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
I won't use the second person.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
I will say when Johnny and I broke up, yeah,
five years ago.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
This is Johnny who you are still in I'm still
with your relationship with you're still together, but there was
a moment where you broke up.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Okay, yeah, after about two or three years moving together
for like a long time. Yeah, so three years in
we broke up and it was really intense. We broke
up in therapy. I didn't know it was coming, whether
I should have or not. It was just like we
went to this therapist to talk about our boundaries, what
we could and couldn't accept about each other.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
There's that acceptance, uh huh.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Instead he just broke up within the first minute, and
I was like, what we were engaged? And I was
so shocked. I was in so much pain. I also
don't like surprises, and he's an incredible human beings, so
he wasn't trying to surprise me. He was in that
much pain in the relationship. There was that much that
needed to be dealt with, that he had to protect
(24:42):
himself around his heart. So as opposed to like going
fucking I don't know if I'm allowed to cuss on
this thing, but.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
You can cuss up as to.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Him, okay, as opposed to going fuck him, you know,
getting in this mode of anger. I went in and
I I did the most work on myself by far.
I learned how to claim my voice, boundaries, what were
my motives in life?
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Like what was my part in this?
Speaker 3 (25:11):
And I'm so thankful for that breakup because a when
we got back together, it was a different relationship, but
also because it really taught me how I.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Operated in the world.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
What were the things from my childhood that I needed,
like whether it was to be adored by men or
things that I didn't know how to let go, to
be in a relationship, to not take things personally my boundaries.
I just went into myself and I had a great therapist.
I went to the same one. I kept seeing him,
the one that we met all the breakup day, and
it was brutal to go to his office after that
(25:43):
for a while, but then it was great and I'm
really thankful a nothing will ever hurt me that bad again.
And then the most of all, most importantly, I completely changed.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
H gosh, that's so interesting. I feel like all of us,
well most do anything we can to not feel pain.
I think people are so frightened of emotional pain, but
the idea of when it happens, there's so much strength
in realizing that it doesn't killy, and that what one
(26:18):
can foster in oneself because of that pain is so
much better and so much more amazing. There is such
incredible freedom in taking the hit and then going what
is my part in the pain of all of this
and coming out the other side, Like I imagine if
you come out of the other side of that with
Johnny or without Johnny, it would sort of have been
(26:40):
a completely different version of yourself.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
It takes a lot of bravery to end something that
has so much passion or and anything any kind of relationship.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
It's so much easier just to stay and ride things
out and make excuses, and you know, fear of.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Pain is just too much to handle.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
But once you are bold enough to make this and
go through the pain, you can't go around it, so
you just go through it, and then when you do,
everything's easier. I so I always trying to tell Coco, Coco,
this issue, this is a roadblock. You can't go around it.
It's going to catch you down the road. Go through it,
deal with it. And this is another thing I learned
(27:19):
during that time, and I'm still working on it every day.
Am I doing this out of fear or connection?
Speaker 1 (27:27):
And I have to ask.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Myself like some of them like, oh, I haven't heard
from that person. I wonder if they still like me,
or what if they care? And then I think, wait
a minute, do I actually care? If they care?
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Do I really want it? Am I connecting with them
or now just seeing if they care.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
I'm writing things down that you're saying.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
It gives you a lot of clarity. What is your motive?
What are you doing things for? And I'm thankful that
Johnny was so bold and brave because it was life
changing for me and I'm sure for him.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
You do make the most delicious food. So what would
be your last meal?
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Is my stomach like endless.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
It's limitless. This is like your everything that you love.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Okay, I would start with a Giorgio salad, the one
on West Channel. Oh I loved dressing whatever the red wine,
vinegar or whatever it is. I cannot. I've tried, but
I cannot make it as good. It's got a rubula
and ondives and anyway, That's what i'd start with.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
And then I would have like a pasta course, which.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Would be maybe a pesto and maybe a tomato sauce
with some fresh mozzarella and then I'd have a twice
baked potato stuff with like sour cream and cheese and butter,
and I would I'd have a steak but cooked the
way the sky made it on my Instagram.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Recently, so good. It was better than I can do.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Wait, you didn't even eat it. You just looked at
it on Instagram, and that's you want your steak.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
No, no, no, I saw him on Instagram and then
you got him to I wrote to him to stop it.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Oh, Instagram was like a dating friend website.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Oh my god, Cotney, that's the most amazing thing. So
you saw a guy make a steak and then you
DMed him and he was like, sure, will come. And
then he came and actually recreated that steak in your
house and you ate it.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
This looked so good, So I asked, could he please
come over and teach me something? He used to work
for a Michelin Star restaurant, and I'm not really that
kind of food because I want more.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I like bulk.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yes, I like bulk too, I agree.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
And I don't need it to be so fancy. I
need I needed like how do I make this?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (29:38):
So yeah, he came over and he taught me how
to make that steak. We made that, and then he
came over again and made this Korean Southern fried chicken
with coleslaw over waffles.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
And it was incredible, but I will say it took
like seven hours. He made the pastry.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
I said, like, dude, why don't you just get some
Pillsbury dough crescent rolls. That was going to care once
you put it in the wall, Homemaker, just the shape there,
and he had like the layer of pastry and then
the big thing of butter, and then more pastries.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
And I'm like, oh my god, it was the longest
meal in the whole world.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
That's making puff pastry. It is gnarly making puff pastry
from scratch. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
It was like a poissant that you put into a.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
That you then put in a waffle line. Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
It was great.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
That's a croissant waffle.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
It's called a proffele.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Oh ohissant any which way, Yeah, now I want that.
And then he put fried chicken on top that.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Was twice fried, and then after it was so crunchy,
then he put it with this Korean kind of.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
It was salty, sweet, spicy.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Salt, fat, acid sugar. Oh my god, I'm so hungry now.
I just can't thank you enough. That's such a wonderful conversation.
I've written so many things down just to go and remember.
And waffles made out of puff postries. Mini Questions is
(31:07):
hosted and written by Me, Mini Driver, Executive produced by
Me and Aaron Kaufman, with production support from Jennifer Bassett,
Zoey Denkler, and Ali Perry. The theme music is also
by Me and additional music by Aaron Kaufman. Special banks
to Jim Nikolay Addison, O'Day, Henry Driver, Lisa Castella, A
(31:30):
Nick Oppenheim, A, Nick Mueller and Annette Wolfe, a w kPr,
Will Pearson, Nicki Etoor, Morgan Levoy and mangesh A Tigadore.
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