Somewhere in the US, in Ohio, in the suburbs of Columbus, Vivek Ramaswamy's campaign headquarters are located.
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Despite what you may think, the offices of the rising star of the GOP do not have hundreds of staffers roaming the hallways in pursuit of the White House come January 2025, WHen I arrived there in late August to talk with the 38-year-old presidential hopeful, a son of immigrants from India who made a fortune in his twenties by entering the pharm business and collaborating with Israelis, things were very much different than that picture of a typical campaign headquarters.
Having no political background, he is the outsider in the race. He has cast himself as the anti-politician, who wants to lead a movement for the truth, with his own 10 "commandments" that he calls "truths" for the 2024 campaign.
1. God is real.
2. There are two genders.
3. Human flourishing requires fossil fuels.
4. Reverse racism is racism.
5. An open border is no border.
6. Parents determine the education of their children.
7. The nuclear family is the greatest form of governance known to mankind.
8. Capitalism lifts people up from poverty.
9. There are three branches of the U.S. government, not four.
10. The US Constitution is the strongest guarantor of freedoms in history.
He shows such confidence that many Israeli politicians would look modest compared to him.
"Biden is who he is. And I'm not going to sit here and complain about Joe Biden, I'm going to replace him as the next president," he says in his straight-talk manner.
On a substance level, he could be seen as America's version of Emmanuel Macron – someone who has emerged out of nowhere at a young age. He is breathing down Ron DeSantis' neck, who is stuck in second place, and provides new hope to those Republicans who yearn for someone tough and conservative who is not Donald Trump.
Ramaswamy is trailing the former president by double-digit numbers but he doesn't believe the challengers should unite against the front-runner.
"Look at what political analysts said about Trump at this time in 2016. It was laughable, there wasn't a credible one who said that he was going to win the election; that's exactly what happened. And so, I think I am following the same trajectory that Trump did in 2016. And I do think that I'm going to be even more successful in winning the general election in a landslide."
Q: According to one veteran political pundit here in America, there are actually two GOP primaries right now: One is between the eight of you who were in the debate last week; and another fight is between the one that emerges from the eight against Trump. Wouldn't it be wiser if the eight of you chose the one who will fight Trump? I mean, politically, now he's enjoying the divisions among the eight of you.
"I don't look at scheming this way. I look at it much more simplistically. I'm an outsider to politics. I'm a successful businessman. I'm 38 years old, I've lived the American dream, I'm raising two sons now. I want to make sure that my two sons and their generation enjoy the same American dream that I have lived. I want to revive our national identity. And so, the way I think about it is as an outsider to politics – and I was the only outsider on that stage last week, I'm the true outsider in this race – my job is to speak the truth, to tell the people of this country, who I am and what I stand for. And you know what, if everybody in this country knows that, and they want to go for somebody else, I'm fine with that. But I think that the reality is, once more people in this country do know who I am and what I stand for, I think that's going to lead me to be successful. I'll be the next president. And this isn't about me. It's not about Trump, it's about the country. I'm a vehicle for advancing our America first agenda. And that's why I think we're going to be successful."
Just before we sat down for the interview, he had returned from a full day of meetings and interviews in New York. In the stable that became his offices, there is a recording studio where holds interviews. His first interview with an Israeli newspaper is conducted amid a flurry of other interviews and podcasts in that very studio.
Q: Are you not punching above your weight at such a young age, but running for president?
"Well, look, I think that my parents had a saying is you jump high if you do it from a stable foundation, and I am starting, fortunately, with what God has given me with this country has given us a stable foundation. I've lived the American dream. I'm blessed with a loving family, I grew up in a two-parent household where we had a focus on education, and a belief in God, this is a strong foundation that I've been given. So I believe it is my obligation to this country to indeed jump high for this country. But it's not about me. It's about the purpose of actually reviving our country. And I believe that it is possible to revive a country whose best days are still ahead. I'm person as I said, I believe that America does not have to be in decline."
Q: But experience is important no?
"I think in some ways, it can make you better. I think in some ways, it can make you worse, I think it can make you think according to the status quo biases, the way I look at it is, if somebody's been crashing your car, every time they drive it, you don't turn over the keys to the same person, you might try somebody new to actually have a different vision for how you drive that car. So I don't want the experienced person driving the car if they're experienced in running into a wall and crashing it every time. "
Q: How are you going to deal with the opioid and drug pandemic?
"A big part of the problem is the US southern border, actually referenced Israel as our friend, I think I would love border policies similar to what Israel has in this country. The reality is we have a porous southern border, financed by drug cartels underneath that wall. Trucks are literally driving through those tunnels. So what I've said is, I will use the US military to close the holes in our own southern border. That's how we actually stop the human trafficking problem, the illegal migrant problem, the fentanyl problem. And much of this is actually intentional. This is coming from Wuhan in China, literally Wuhan of all places."
Q: Do you view China as a threat to the United States as existential threat like some are saying? Or do you believe that they want peace, as they claim?
"China's a fundamentally dishonest country. That's what it comes down to Communist China. fundamentally dishonest. I do not believe Xi Jinping. I believe him based on his actions. China is the single greatest threat to the United States. And my foreign policy will be oriented accordingly. Part of the danger in the United States today is that we depend on our enemy, Communist China, for our modern way of life. That's the problem from the shoes on our feet to the phones in our pockets. So the first step I'm going to take is declaring economic independence from China. That's going to require greater relationships with Israel, India, Japan, and South Korea, to source the kinds of things we're sourcing from China."
Q: The tense relations with China also impact Israel. We have our own problems, like the fact that Joe Biden has not invited Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for a meeting.
"It's pathetic because I think that he's cowardly not to welcome actually the leader of Israel and have an open conversation with his peer. And I think it's a big part of Biden's fear syndrome, more generally, walking on eggshells, worried about offending some members of his Left that would rather apologize for the existence of Israel. I think he should have had Bibi here, I think that would have been the decent and correct thing to do and building up a strong relationship with a true friend."
Q: In the same context, I would like to ask you to clarify what you meant when you talk about the US military aid to Israel because you have been quoted as having said you want to end it in 2028.
"So, the reality is that the three billion in aid that we give to Israel is a tiny drop in the bucket for the US military budget. But part of the benefit is – it runs through the US industrial base; a lot of that work is done here in the United States of America. It's actually accretive to the US and our interests. And so, in a certain way, it would be silly for us to want to skimp or cut that when in fact, it's not just in Israel's interest, but that's in our own interest, even nationally, in building our industrial base. And if it's accretive that means the more we actually run through, the more we're actually bolstering the US industrial base itself. And so that's good for the US. That's good for Israel. At some point in time, if Israel comes to us as a true friend, as Bibi has done in the past [referring to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's speech in the US Congress in 1996], and says we don't need this, then great, then that's a point at which we can reevaluate. But we're not going to cut the aid until Israel tells us that, and even then, it's actually been a good thing for the US because we've built our own capabilities, investing internally in the meantime."
Q: So, if Israel asks you to continue with the aid and even asks for more, what are you going to say?
"I think that's a very reasonable...as long as it's running through the US, in that existing framework running through the US, if that advances American interests – and I believe it does – to build the US industrial base. I think it's a very reasonable conversation."
"One of the most important areas for partnership, and this is in the interest of both the US and Israel, is making sure together, that Iran never ever, ever becomes nuclear-equipped. If you look at the kinds of missiles that Iran is working on now, they don't need those missiles to hit Israel. They need those missiles to hit the United States. And so, this is out of self-interest in the United States that I take that strong posture."
Q: So, will you use military force to stop Iran? The only time they stopped nuclear development was during the George W. Bush administration because they were afraid he would attack them.
"We will not stop Israel from defending itself to the fullest capacity. And we remain supportive of Israel because they are our friend. I think it's really important that the US not put our own men and women on the line in a war with Iran, when in fact, there's no reason for us to be in that kind of war now, and I don't think that's good for the United States, and I don't think that's good for Israel. But what we do need to do is to make sure that Israel is strong so that Iran isn't emboldened
"This is, you know, an ayatollah in Iran who would rather Israel not exist, let's just call that truth out for what it is. And so, Israel needs to be in a strong position to defend itself. And the United States will be at Israel's back. But I think that that's a very different thing from automatically sleepwalking ourselves into war. I'm an anti-war president. And the way I'm going to do it is by deterring war, be it ending the war in Ukraine and deterring China. These are important elements of why I think it's important to be strong, but in a way that doesn't accidentally walk us into wars that we don't belong in."
Ramaswamy, it is clear, does not want to hurt Israel. It appears that this extends to domestic manners, by going against meddling in Israel's affairs. "It's not our job, to engage and manage Israel's domestic affairs. That's the job of Israel's leader. It's not a transactional relationship. It's not a client relationship. We're friends, what is a friend who there's changing circumstances, I want to talk to my peer that'll be Bibi, and have an open conversation about what his perspectives are on what best advances Israel's interests. And I will share with him, in honesty and candor, what I believe best advance American interests, those interests heavily overlap. And that's exactly how we'll set that policy forward. But I don't want to fall into the trap of offering my armchair musings of what is or isn't in Israel's own best interests, that should come from Israeli leadership. What comes from me is a firm commitment to say that this is our ally. This is our friend, and we will have a relationship of trust that is the basis for our foreign policy."
Q: Do you believe Israel's democratic character is on the line, as some have claimed?
"I don't think so. I think it's overstated. And I have to admit, I haven't probably studied this issue as closely. But I do think it's ironic that the very modern left in the United States that talks about wanting to expand the Supreme Court, and that term limits to the Supreme Court here in the United States, has no problem blasting Israel for making judicial reforms. We're having a conversation about judicial reform. In Israel, I do think that it's a bit of a hypocrisy on the American Left today. The reality is this is a complicated issue relating to separation of powers. We have complex separation of powers questions here in the United States. It's not surprising that Israel has a similarly vigorous debate about the same. But again, I think it's really important that the United States not act like this is our place to enter into what is an important domestic debate, a heated but important debate within Israel, just as we would not want Israel engaging in a debate about what the relationship is between our Supreme Court and our US president or our legislature, I think we should extend the same courtesy and return to our friends."
Q: What do you say about the possibility that Israel extends its sovereignty to parts of Judea and Samaria, as has been proposed in the Trump peace plan?
"I think it's an important conversation to have. In the context of a negotiation, is that an important elements to be on the table in conversation? I think it's not unreasonable. That's my view on it."
Q: If the Palestinian Authority collapses, what do you think needs to happen?
"I want to get Bibi's current perspective on this…And by the end of my first term in office, I'm confident that our relationship with Israel will be stronger than it has ever been. What does that mean? I'm going to lead the way diplomatically, to take the Abraham Accords to the next level, Authority. Forget the Oslo Accords…What I believe is that our relationship between the US and Israel should be a true friendship. Not a transactional relationship, but a true friendship. And by the end of my first term in office, I'm confident that our relationship with Israel will be stronger than it has ever been…Joe Biden even continues the quiet legitimization of the PA...the reality is Biden is legitimizing what Mahmoud Abbas was in the 18th year of a four-year term, this is pathetic. I think we need a US president who stands with a spine to say, 'Israel as it exists as our friend, and we're not going to embrace this antisemitic foreign policy trope that we have to hold Israel hostage over the Palestinian question.' We're not going to do that. We're going to go further in integrating Israel, diplomatically leading the way into, let's just say the economic infrastructure, the security infrastructure of the Middle East; let's get Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar, and Indonesia, into that pact. That helps Israel stand stronger. That's what good friends do they help each other stand more strongly."
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